I work for Xerox (27 years now) and the other day a co-worker noticed some kind of JW literature being printed on one of our machines there in the print shop. It was a job being done for Watchtower Society/local Kingdom Hall kinda thing. I asked her to make sure it was JW, and she confirmed it was. I never knew the Watchtower Society to spend a dime on publication costs outside of the Squibb building, that is. Anyone ever heard of such a thing?
Steve Lowry
JoinedPosts by Steve Lowry
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The Watchtower and Office Depot?
by Steve Lowry ini work for xerox (27 years now) and the other day a co-worker noticed some kind of jw literature being printed on one of our machines there in the print shop.
it was a job being done for watchtower society/local kingdom hall kinda thing.
i asked her to make sure it was jw, and she confirmed it was.
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Relationship with God
by dozy injust a general question , really.. i'm an active witness who is questioning & researching - unsure of any conclusions yet.
i've spoken to a couple of former apostates who have been reinstated as to why they returned (as i know that very few do) and the summary of their conclusions is given below.
i would appreciate your comments.. ...essentially they had a strong relationship with god and felt that this was the paramount purpose in life.
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Steve Lowry
"they found that most had left any form of religion or belief behind and became interested in a "wordly life" ie having a good time , hobbies , career , education etc. The language and morals of many (though by no means not all) had deteriorated. Although some had "found Jesus" , none of them had maintained any relationship with the Creator and many even had atheistic and / or agnostic feelings."I believe that people will eventually find the way that works for them best. In the beginning, people who leave a demanding religion with all it rules and by-laws like the Watchtower Society, for them there is a certain freedom that I think they experience. I know for me, I felt a great freedom to try all kinds of things (sex, drugs, etc.). But eventually I got past all that and found my way. I accepted Jesus Christ into my life in 1984. You know, I got saved and all that. Over the years I have back slidin' somewhat at times, but I have never been without my relationship with God. In fact, I see His loving hand in my life from day to day. From the beginning I have seen God supply all my needs (post JW). I have seen it over and over and over again. Sometimes I even feel guilty cuz of His provisions for me. I feel bad for Jehovah's Witnesses or any other person belonging to an overpowering and dominating religion, cuz I have a wonderful relationship with my heavenly Father and I don't need and man made religion to assist in that process. I think some folks need the structure and the feeling of belonging to something bigger than they, to make them feel they are pleasing to God. What a pity. It has taken me many years to understand God's love for me, and I still really don't quite comprehend it, to be honest. It was only after I became a father myself that I began to understand His unconditional love for me. This is the way I love my daughter, who is only ten years old. Unconditionally.
Folks, you don’t need the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society to know and have a relationship with your heavenly Father. All you need is to accept Him into your life and learn to trust him (as I am still learning) and he will show Himself to you and He will show you how much He loves His creation, you.
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The Deity of Christ
by RevFrank inthe watchtower society has mishandled rules of greek grammar and has manipulated the wording of numerous biblical passages that reveal the deity of christ.
john 1:10 - "...the world came into existence through him..." .
colossians 1:16 - "...all things have been created through him..." .
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Steve Lowry
Two thousand years later and this debate goes on . . .
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When do you think WTBS became a cult?
by lighthouse1956 inmost believe it was rutherford took over, any ideas?
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Steve Lowry
"I guess it depends on your motive. Personally, I see little to gain from causing 'discomfort'. That is a quick way to cause them to raise their defenses and stop listening. If, on the other hand, you want to help people to see for themselves that they are being deceived there are better ways than name-calling to get the point across. Also, the term cult means different things to different people, so often all that is left is its negative, attacking, connotation. The Org. uses this sort of tactic every day, branding 'apostates' as 'immoral', 'evil' and so on. It's not right for them and it's not right for us - well that's my opinion anyway." Perhaps we’ll just have to agree to disagree agreeably on the point you're making. That said, I believe in the right tool for the right job. Would I walk up to a JW and tell him coldly, "Hey man, you’re in a cult, get out!" No, of course not. But if in a rational conversation the term ‘cult’ came up, then yea, I would tell him that by today’s definition of a cult, his group qualifies to be referred to as such and I would go about explaining those reasons. He IS in a cult and he needs to understand that. Understanding that could save his life or his children’s lives someday (blood transfusion). Conversely, if he (JW) were to ask me in a conversation if I believed his religion was cultic by the nature of its ideologies, should I deny what I believe to be the truth and say no? Of course not. I have a dear friend who is in denial about her smoking and doesn’t want to quit. So, when I bring it up, I tell her that smoking will most likely give her cancer and I explain in detail how that happens and what it would be like to have the illness (as I have researched it). Discomfort, can be a very effective tool in helping people see the self-destructive actions they are perpetrating on themselves. Don’t make the mistake of underestimating this principle. It works, and I have experienced it in my own life as well.
Now as I understand it, this website is primarily for the former JW (at least that is my experience here). Ergo, people who have been hurt by the Watchtower Society who need to vent and grow through the pain of separating themselves from the group, should be able to feel free to express themselves as they wish. It’s a natural part of the detachment from a cult process. Now, if an active JW comes to such a site as this and he/she is offended by what he/she reads, then such a person should learn quickly this may not be the site for them. But I have read many testimonies where once active JW’s have come to websites such as this one and have had their eyes opened, and not by coddling and sugar coating of the issues but by seeing in clear vision what the outside world (and former members) thinks about their religion.
Its not about name calling for me, its about being honest and up front about what the WBTS is. It is one of the most destructive so-called religions today, that have managed to undermine the family unit and has caused unbelievable suffering for many of those who have left the group. It continues to sacrifice its children to its absurd ideology regarding its ban on blood transfusions. It is completely heretical in its "theology" and has twisted major cardinal doctrine to tailor fit its own ideologies (Jesus, Heaven, Hell, etc). What would you call such a group? I call it, a cult.
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When do you think WTBS became a cult?
by lighthouse1956 inmost believe it was rutherford took over, any ideas?
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Steve Lowry
"When someone resorts to 'name-calling', like calling the Org. a cult, it damages their case. When the GB call oponents 'apostates' they do the same. Stick to the arguments and you might win over some honest hearted ones currently being deceived by the WT."
While I appreciate your point of view, sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. Sure, the term 'cult' has negative connotations to be certain, and it can be used as an insulting gesture, unfortunately. However, that said, we all have come to know and understand that there ARE such groups of people who have such peculiar ideologies that they have no place in the mainstream of belief (ie. Jim Jones), and they render themselves as cultic by their own doing. I believe that the Watchtower Society (by today's definition) is just one such example. A group that would sacrifice the lives of its children (blood transfusions), is in my opinion a cult in every sense of the word, albeit negative. Now, if that challenges a Jehovah's Witness and causes discomfort for him or her, then I believe that’s totally appropriate. Sometimes, you just can't sugar coat something in an attempt to win someone over. Put it out there, and let them see it for how it really is. Maybe then, they can make a good decision. -
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When do you think WTBS became a cult?
by lighthouse1956 inmost believe it was rutherford took over, any ideas?
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Steve Lowry
"OK. Everyone grab a piece of paper and wriet down a number between "1" and "2000". The correct answer is ...... 1879." Actually, the number on that scale that comes to mind would be, 1975! (and maybe even better, 1914). :u)
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Need help with this ..
by JackC inhey everyone.
im 35, have been a witness for 30, baptized at 19, married at 22 and now have 3 kids.
my wife and i are leaving and are considering all the options.
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Steve Lowry
Man, I would walk away and not give them (the elders, etc.) a damn thing. Not one of them ever put a crumb of food on your table, I'm guessin', and you don't owe anyone an explanation for your actions regarding leaving. Let them figure it out. Hell, it dosen't matter how "nice" you leave the Watchtower Society, cuz they're gonna demonize you anyway. If you need closure and sending them a letter will help you, then fine. Otherwise, you're just wasting your time. Don't straighten the chairs on a sinking ship, get in the life boat! :u)
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jw's and verbal/written hit-and-runs...
by in a new york bethel minute inseems like every day i have less and less jw friends... but every so often i'll receive an email or msn message from one saying something witnessy, only to not be able to reply to it because that person has blocked my messages.
anyone else notice this trend?
it seems to me that fearful or insecure people do stuff like that... they have plenty so say, but with no ears to hear anything back.... bethel
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Steve Lowry
Yea, I've this kinda chicken-shit before. They just wanna drop their bomb and run. How freakin' shallow do you have to be to get satisfaction from droppin' your load and running away before you can even hear the other's point of view? Empty "victory", for an empty mind. Typical JW crap, and what really gives me pause before getting into it with any of them any more. In the end, its just a waste of time. Debating with a JW is kinda like masturbating. It feels good, but in the end you're just screwing yourself.
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If you had 1 hour left to live, what would you say to Jehovah?
by JH in.
this should be interesting
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Steve Lowry
Uh, MY money's on that Jehovah's Witnessess, aren't Your Witnessess.
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What Would You Like To Vent About?
by minimus inwhat don't you give a rat's ass over?
what pisses you off?
whaddya wannna tell us??
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Steve Lowry
I hate being the "guy" in a divorse with a child involved. I have to pay child support (which I am glad to do btw, for my baby's sake), yet I only get to see my kid a total of eight days a month (on Wed.'s and every other weekend). As an X-husband with a child involved, I feel I have like almost no rights. The system protects the mother and pretty much discards the father. At least my X-wife and I have an amiable relationship and that helps a great deal. But its really tough making child support payments and trying to have a life. Oh well, life is hard, get over it. LOL!